Dear Desk Diary
Ever felt overwhelmed by the challenges of creating the perfect workspace? You're not alone.
Your employees are likely to spend around 90,000 hours of their lives at work. I'm here to help you make every hour better. Whether you're leading a team, managing an office, or creating spaces people want to work in, join me, Hollie Sanglier, in solving real workplace dilemmas.
Each week, I'll bring in experts to tackle all your issues from boosting team creativity, boosting productivity to designing welcoming workspaces.
As your Workspace Agony Aunt, I'm here to bring insight, solutions, and a touch of calm to your office.
Got a question? Email helpme@deardeskdiary.com or drop me a note on LinkedIn.
Join me on Dear Desk Diary – where we turn workspace woes into workplace wins.
Dear Desk Diary
Office Space Evolution: Insights from Tasha Giddings
Join us for a fascinating conversation with Tasha Giddings, Associate Director at Kontor, who has made a career out of transforming office environments. Tasha’s journey from a university dissertation on creative workspaces to her current role offers invaluable insights into how different office types—serviced, managed, and leased—can dramatically impact employee wellbeing. You'll walk away with a deeper understanding of how a well-designed office can be a game-changer for your team.
Curious about the future of office spaces in a post-COVID world? We explore the shift from traditional long-term leases to more flexible options that cater to the dynamic needs of growing businesses. Tasha delves into the benefits of modern office arrangements, from renting a desk for a day to opting for a hybrid managed office model that marries the best of both worlds.
Wondering about the finer details of choosing the right office space? We break down the critical considerations—deposit sizes, commitment lengths, speed of occupancy, and risk tolerance—so you can navigate your options with confidence.
Welcome to another episode of Dear Desk Diary. I'm your host, holly, and today we're talking about a very exciting topic and also a challenging one as well finding the perfect space for your business. So, whether you're a startup founder, a growing business or just simply looking to upgrade your workspace, I hope you enjoy this episode. We'll discuss the key differences between serviced, managed and leased spaces, and the benefits and drawbacks of both of them, so hopefully you can make an informed decision that aligns with your business goals and growth trajectory. So joining us as our special guest today is Tasha Giddings.
Speaker 1:She's the Associate Director at Contour. Over the past five years, tasha has risen from a graduate to a leader, now working with top companies in the AI, tech and creative sectors. Her interest in transforming workspaces began during her business studies at university. For her dissertation, inspired by the vibrant offices at companies like Google and LinkedIn, tasha focused on how creative environments benefit companies. Her insightful work not only won her the Best Dissertation Award, but also caught Contour's attention, leading her to her current role. We're so excited to have you here today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me so kind, Of course anytime. So over to you. Why are you interested in this topic?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I guess, like you said with with my intro, I guess it's a bit of a geeky start actually talking about, you know, dissertations in uni, but it's true, I did my placement year in somewhere that was very corporate, pretty bureaucratic, everything was gray, quite hard to see people smiling in the office. I thought this just can't be right. So around that time I'd seen the googles and, like I said, like the Linkedins and these amazing office spaces, and then the WeWorks and thought, god, I imagine if every office could be like this, we would be so much happier. It's the classic thing of people spend you know what 80% of their lives at work 90,000 hours that's terrifying okay, great that much time.
Speaker 1:I know it's weird that I know that, yeah, but you know, you know you've come up a lot, great okay.
Speaker 2:I'll try to remember that now. Even more reason right to be somewhere that you enjoy. I mean, we've been saying this podcast, you do right like how nice is this? Just nice environments make you more productive and I just think there are so many benefits to it so started doing all the research.
Speaker 2:I am not an academic person at all, but somehow the dissertation did quite well. But it's more that the results were speaking for themselves and the fact that you know even some people that I were interviewed I was interviewing at the old company that I really didn't think would be interested in this at all actually found it so interesting and like, wow, actually we'd love the office to have, you know, some more breakout space, have some music on in the background, have some collaborative areas. Have you know, I remember there were some purple sofas and it was like, wow, look at what we've got. It's like you can do so much more than that. So that's basically how I got interested in office space and, yeah, I put in a LinkedIn post about it, about my dissertation, and contour reached out and, yeah, kind of went from there really. So I was very lucky actually to find a job in such an organic way.
Speaker 2:But the fact that I can, you know, work from all these amazing spaces kind of you know, whenever we like, and obviously we tour them all the time with clients and starting to do more globally as well, it's just it's a really exciting time to be in the industry. Again sounds really cliche, but it's just so nice putting clients into places where you can just tell they are so much happier. You know, I worked with a company recently with World Rugby actually and they said how you know, their office attendance had just pretty much quadrupled since we moved them and it's just, it's just a really genuinely rewarding job and yeah everyone's inspired and I love it.
Speaker 1:yeah, I feel like maybe in the past people would come big companies could pay a lot of money for a nice design, just for the sake of having a nice design. Yeah, but it's only recently, I think, that people have found out that actually, if you've got a nice design, it actually increases productivity, which actually helps with profit. Yeah, you know. So it's not just like a nice thing to have it actually helps the business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it's really hard to put data towards that I think especially, you know, small companies can probably see it. They've got their, you know five, ten people in the office. They're coming in more regularly and they can see it directly, whereas you're right with the bigger companies, it's really hard to equate, you know, nice office with office attendance, therefore with better work and output it's not easy to do but you know, companies have set the president now and people are more.
Speaker 2:More companies are understanding the importance behind that and so investing, and I think also it's not just about you know, having a pool table and things like that, it's that's always the one that comes up.
Speaker 1:You know it's always. Whenever we talk about this, it's always like pool table and a nice coffee machine. Maybe some beers in the fridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you can do that. It's fine, yeah, but sure, um, but it's more around designing a space effectively, which is why the building, the brief part, is so important.
Speaker 2:So tell us about contour what's been going on recently we actually in november we will be celebrating our 10-year anniversary, so we've been running for about 10 years now very exciting. It was originally started by two of our co-founders, jt and luke. They were at cbre both directors, I think, collectively there for about 15 years and, speaking to their clients, they were noticing a real shift towards this more kind of like agile approach to working. Yeah, with you know the demand rising as well for you know, the service well, I suppose more service products.
Speaker 2:Back then the managed manager wasn't as much of a thing, but we'll come into that later. They started to, you know, try more of a flexible team where they were, but it didn't quite take off. So they decided to basically do their own thing, focusing on working with, you know, landlords and large occupiers and, you know, specifically in the tech and creative sectors as well, because it's seen where that's where most of this demand was. So they built up the team and they brought in some of the best people that they'd worked with previously in the industry you know such as JLL and Instant brought in Sam Dawson, gavin Kamara, so we are now a team of about 20.
Speaker 2:We've kept it lean, actually, with the idea being that we have, I guess, less of an en masse transactional broker approach and it's more of a personal advisory. So we're here kind of as and when you need us. So I'd say, about 80 of our businesses repeat and referral because of that, which is really good, and we're a really nice close-knit team and again, we've got a good office and you've had clients you've grown with for years and years and years years and years and years I think monzo started.
Speaker 2:God, I think they're about 20 desks and we started working with them. We've recently moved into about like 15,000, no, that's like 250,000 square foot. Sorry, I think so, yeah, so we really have grown with some of these companies from when they were pretty small, which has been wicked to see, yeah, that's lovely, it's a real mix of companies as well, and generally the people have been so fab to work with as well, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Often doesn't feel like work. Yeah, I should say that, sorry, contour um, but it doesn't, and we have a lot of fun with our clients as well.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that is no work should not feel like work because we spend 90 000 hours doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so you're meant it's meant to feel like part of your life exactly in a positive way. Uh-huh, and the office environment impacts that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I guess it's interesting that we're talking about this subject of like, going from like service to manage to lease. Yes, because something like monzo, that's a classic example, right classic example where they imagine would have started in service. I don't know, did they? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, pretty sure they did. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you work your way up. That has, I mean, the typical move was, you know, back in the day, get a big lease space, loads of people, big commitment, huge upfront, you know capex costs and hopefully grow into it obviously. Then it evolved more and more. You've got the likes of we work and you know mind space, all these companies doing this very similar kind of thing, the serviced office providers, whereby you can go into a space, you can take a, you know, a desk for a day, you can take a little office for a month. So much more flexibility. And then, as you grow, you can then, you know, resent, typically okay.
Speaker 2:Then you look, you look at more of a self-contained space in those serviced offices or going into leased. Now there is a kind of like a hybrid option called managed, which people have probably heard a lot about. Essentially, very basically, it looks and feels like a lease. It is your own HQ, it's your own four walls, you have all your branding, bespoke design in there, but you have it on flexible, it on flexible terms. So you're not, you know, stuck to it for three to five years.
Speaker 2:There's so many options within this space now as well. Pretty much any building or option you see you can kind of have on any with any solution. So it's almost made our jobs more difficult because you know back in the day we'd know that a client would come to us, they'd have a set brief and we'd be like, okay, we know exactly which providers are going to work for them and which route will work. Now every building has a solution which actually you know, obviously from a tenant perspective is very good and we're learning more and more every day. And that changed with covid, I imagine changed massively with covid well, I say that it did.
Speaker 2:I think it just sped it up actually yeah, it was already happening anyway, yeah I think lots of companies wanted, you know, that cool, flexible solution. But where they're not, you know, tied in and they have to, you know, put up a lot of money to kind of get it all sorted in the first place, so cool. Should we do the questions?
Speaker 2:okay, I run a mid-sized marketing agency what are the key benefits of each type of office space? We're considering a move next year and want to weigh our options. Very good question. So serviced is typically where most companies start out. So you've got co-working spaces. You can, as I said, hire a desk for a day and then you can move into their actual offices that they've got within the building. So typically, you know, you get smaller providers. Obviously there's a whole mix out there, but you've got the likes of fora. But we work multi-talented, shared communal space, shared facilities. Sometimes you get gyms. Obviously you can choose to have the bells and whistles or you can go for spaces that don't necessarily have that.
Speaker 2:It's whatever you think is important a lot of freelancers a lot of freelancers, yeah, and at the beginning you're wanting to save costs as well. Right, you're probably, you know, seed pre-seed in the stages of, kind of like, slowly getting funding going. So there's all those, plenty of solutions for those, those first stages. Over the time, over time, as you grow and you get more people in and actually it's really key to attract and retain top talent, you're going to want to put more money towards it.
Speaker 2:I suppose service is is, yeah, the best place to start. They have really flexible term lengths. So, as I said, it can be anything from month to month, six, twelve months. Obviously, the longer you sign for, the better price. We can lock in day passes if you're just yeah, absolutely yeah, if you want to do that, week passes. Again, it varies per provider on their offering, but typically there's always going to be a solution now for whatever you need and, again, we can advise on that. I would say I don't know you know how many people would want to talk in square foot, but I'd average about 30 to 50 square foot per person in the service side of things, with the you know, the bigger providers where they've got a lot of communal space and, as I said, the gyms and the cafes and whatever else. It's typically less square for square, less square foot in the actual office, because that's been allocated kind of to the communal area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if that makes sense, um I used to work for a co-working space and we had a lot of companies. Actually it would be like a 10 person and then they'd get a five person office because they were like, well, no, everyone's going to be in every day, and then the other five, if they were there, would just co-work it worked really well. Yeah, exactly it's really good it was cheap for them yeah, they just bought them day passes, and then people were at home or whatever exactly, and again, we can.
Speaker 2:You know, it again, depends on provider, but we can negotiate on access passes.
Speaker 2:So again, if you are a company of 20, but, you have five people coming in regularly, get a five-person office and then use your passes and then also with the passes, you can then collect the data as well and then just see who's coming in when, which is really handy. Actually, again, before you, you know big commitment and a big deposit that you put down, so serviced is very good for companies that are scaling quickly or you know very early stages and not quite sure what they want to do yet. Prices are also all inclusive, which is way easier. Um, so you know all your bills, your business rates, the, you know the furniture typically everything is included, so it's plug and play, as I like to call it. You can turn up on the day, you can agree the deal the day before. You can view it, agree it be in the next day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super simple, super easy, just to like get your feet on the ground. So that's typically where a lot of companies, yeah, start out. As I said, prices are all inclusive, so naturally there is a premium with that, but in the long run, when you're looking at more of a lease space where you do have to put up a lot of capex initially and there was a lot involved at the beginning actually over the first kind of two, three years. It probably equate to about the same and if you are looking to save money, then you go with a more cost-effective provider. If you don't need, you know, the yoga classes and whatever else is included in the BSLs.
Speaker 1:But I guess the downside of that is talent attraction.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, so this is the way up and this is why building the brief at the beginning is genuinely so important. We've got to figure out what is important, what your route is. But again, because this is, you know, there are the terms are so flexible, you can figure that out as you kind of go. Sometimes it's best just to get in, get your feet on the ground, get moving, and then, yeah, we, we will help build that brief with you. As I said, there's, you know, you can choose a much cheaper, more cost-effective provider if you need to um and then go up to something, for example, like like a fora, where you do have all the bells and whistles. So you can. You know, before you go from service to manage, you can grow within service first as well start off on a hot desk, something cost effective, then move up.
Speaker 2:But, as you say, yeah for talent attraction and retaining top people. You know, I feel like people have a lot more say now. If they want to demand coming in two, three days a week they almost can now and if they have worked for competitors or other companies where they've provided and had these facilities, it's very unlikely they're going to want to go to somewhere that is suddenly just pretty beige yeah again and just not have that buzz because it gives so much more.
Speaker 2:For example, like Fridays, whenever we go into these co-working spaces some people might feel different, but they genuinely seem quite busy, like we're in regularly on Fridays by choice. Because we need to have that buzz, we need to kind of, you know, especially after working from home. For so long I missed that that's I mean did you? You must have done like working from your bedroom. I hate it.
Speaker 1:I still don't really work from home no, I don't, I don't like it.
Speaker 2:I go, I go and look, it's good for some people. Um, yeah, and it definitely has its benefits. But if you want people to be coming into the office, the main message needs to be be somewhere where they're going to want to come into. Yeah. So, um, managed again that kind of hybrid in the middle between service and least. Again, lots of providers out there now, typically you know kit and no tell. They very much hit the ground running with it a couple of years ago, pre-covid, and now kind of since. You know, people have been coming back but they don't necessarily want to share close spaces with lots of people. Naturally, managed has kind of evolved and more and more companies have got involved with it and I think also on the managed side is much more about design piece as well and being effective and using the space effectively and designing it properly. So it's not just a we want x-may desk, we want x-may meeting rooms. Great, shove them in. There we go. It's very much okay. How are you going to use that? How are people going to flow? Where are the teams sitting? What are you trying to get out of this? You know, can you move this around to you know fits, different parts of the week, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Term lengths here are typically kind of one to three years. I'd say a bit more square foot per person, between kind of 50 and 80. It's a really good option for when you have a clear idea of your growth plans and you can grow into the space. So say, if you're at 20, 30 and you're going to be going up to 50, if you're here for a year or two, then that's a really good amount of time to to slowly grow, bring those new people in and adapt the space. So often when we do do a managed search, we'll look at a day one and a day two space plan. Yeah, day one being we move in on that day, how's it going to look day two, maybe a year down the line? We've added 10, 15 more people. This will need to be moved here and that will need to go there. So it's agile.
Speaker 2:It's very much designed for people that don't quite know how many people they're going to have but can move into a space that they can brand, they can call home, rather than it feeling like a stopgap. Yeah, again, it's all inclusive pricing. There occasionally are a few more bits, you know if you wanted a gold wall or something super fancy that you know the landlord or the managed provider might not absorb the cost of that. But on the whole, everything is all inclusive, again, making it so much easier. I mean, I don't know about you, but even just sourcing house bills stresses me out. I've got an old water bill on my side table. I still haven't paid yet, whereas if I've been the previous house that I was in, again it was all inclusive and it's just done. You don't have to worry about it. Yeah, whereas just that feeling of bills mounting up is just they're stressful and sinking feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true, we don't like no. So here's perhaps a slightly bigger deposit, maybe kind of up to three, four months it can depend on your, your cash flow position and you can move in I'd say within, depending on what needs to be done to space between four and eight weeks. So it takes a little bit longer, it's a little more bespoke, but again, it's not the big commitment that a lease is. So on that, moving on to more of the lease space I mean. So just for again a little bit more context. So I work in our tenant advisory team. There are five of us in the team and then we also have a leasing team as well. So they are the lease experts, but more and more these days as the kind of um, I guess lines merge between the two. We are starting to learn a lot more about lease space.
Speaker 2:Now. Any space, as I said earlier, can be taken. You know, if it is a lease, we can then get a managed layer then put in on top, hence why you can kind of pick any space you like now. So it you know there's so many more buildings that we can cover now for clients, um, but with the lease space you can either take it as a, you know, cate, which is shell and core you in. There's pretty much nothing in there. It's pretty much, you know, got that metal flooring down. That's kind of it. There's a lot more that then needs to be added into it. It's got the yeah, the ceilings, the M&E and the HVAC systems, but that's kind of it. Cat B sometimes there got your, you know, your cat a plus as well, which is more plug and play. Here we've probably got about 80 square foot a person.
Speaker 2:You work direct with the landlords and large occupiers. So, for example, the crown estate, british land, they have all got large lease bases, but then they've also developed their own managed products so they can add in that managed layer. So again, it's all inclusive. So your term lengths on the lease side about five years, with a break at three. It's pretty traditional.
Speaker 2:Deposits can be anywhere from four to even 12 months sometimes, again, depending on your covenant strength. And then there's things to bear in mind, such as your acquisition costs, your capex costs, such as your fit out, your IT and your exit costs. So, to sum up, is is probably more cost effective in the very long run if you really have established your position. You know exactly where you're going to be out in five years time and you're happy having an hq and that is that. But if you're still not sure and you're growing and you're, you know, raising funds and everything, I would definitely suggest one of the more flexible routes the service door, the managed. It makes a lot more sense, I guess. Expert, expert, I think I've learned a lot today Good.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's do the next one. Yeah, how do the costs of serviced, managed and leased office spaces compare? We have a tight budget and need to be cost effective. So overall, you do pay a premium for the service and managed route because you know it's all inclusive, so there is naturally a premium with that, but it does give you a lot more flexibility. So I would say it's four main things to consider.
Speaker 2:First one is how willing are you to pay a big deposit? So, as I said previously, you know it's two to three months. On the more service managed routes it can be around six months on on the lease side. So that's a question that you need to bear in mind. And, yeah, how much money you're happy to to be setting aside. Basically, two, how long are you willing to sign for? So? So I mean, as we said, we can go from day passes if you want, but serviced month to month if you want managed, you know, between a year or two and leases typically three years, three to five years.
Speaker 2:So another thing to bear in mind. Three, how quickly do you need the space? So, at least typically takes at least six months from start to finish, whereas, yeah, the more flexible routes are much, much quicker, like tomorrow, like tomorrow, yeah. Question four how much risk are you willing to carry? Uh, this, you know the more flexible routes, as I've said, you know there's a lot less, a lot less commitment. So those are the kind of four pointers I would say. Does it make a?
Speaker 1:difference depending on how big you are, like. Is there a point? So if you're like 30, staff being in service is actually more expensive, like way more expensive. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, like tip over it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it can do. I mean, it all depends on again, I hate to be that person oh, it depends, but it depends on which provider you're with, what kind of I'd say mainly what your growth plans are because I think we found it, the co-working space I worked at.
Speaker 1:People go out of the space, yeah, just because they'd get like we had a company that went from like 10 to like 100 and they literally had like two wings yeah, in the, in the building and it was amazing, but they got to a point where they're like this doesn't work. This is too expensive because, like we actually would, it's cheaper for us to hire a receptionist rather than use your post. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely, like it all became it just and they grew out of it essentially.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um no, that makes sense. I I would absolutely agree. I think when you hit probably over, it's hard. But over 40, 50 people, if you think you're, you know, going to be very happy with a space that is your own, it does make sense to make that move.
Speaker 2:But then again, you know you've got big companies in the likes of we working for and it still works really well for them because they do have the bells and whistles, and it means that they've then got all these amazing people that they're going to keep because they love being where they are, they love having all this extra and people make connections people make connections, they do yeah yeah, you do.
Speaker 1:I've been from there.
Speaker 2:Well, that's in my life yeah, right, and I've met so many people through work and actually with a lot of these providers as well. They have, you know, member apps as well and there's events and there's all sorts going on, which is really nice, yeah, so it just depends on you know what your, what kind of people you're wanting to hire, what kind of environment you're wanting to have in the office. If it's very much, you know, we've got loads of people now we're working really hard kind of heads down. We'll have our own beer fridge, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But we need to kind of, you know, really focus on these costs, managed absolutely or looking at a lease. But if you're still wanting that, you know super buzzy vibe, but there's loads of different. You've got your own office, but there's different areas to go and break out into within a building service is still a good option, but again, you've got self-contained floors in those buildings as well. So that's almost the best of both worlds. Yeah, hence so many options. But you know it's nice to have choice. For a long-term play, lease is typically the more cost-effective option. Uh, but if you compare both routes, like I said, on a shorter term, which is two, three years, managed lease equates to a very similar price overall.
Speaker 2:The managed route, as I said, involves pretty much no capex or dilapidation. That's kind of covered by the landlord or whoever is doing the managed layer, and also costs are fixed. That's quite a big thing to bear in mind. So your utilities, your business rates, you're locking that price in for that time, whereas on a lease it is variable. So that's something else to think about.
Speaker 2:Also, going on the more flexible route means that we also have the option to stagger the rent and kind of backload it in conjunction with hiring. So, for example, if you're thinking, okay, I want 50 people within a year or two, but I've only got 20 people now I don't really want to be paying for space that you know. 30 desks empty we can I mean, it's the same net rent overall. But just to kind of help with cash flows, we can then agree that less is paid at the beginning and then so it goes up. But that is just one example of how we can get creative with contracts. So any problem you think you've got there is going to be a solution for it and we can.
Speaker 1:We can figure it out and you get rent free, don't you? Yes?
Speaker 2:you do? Did we say that?
Speaker 1:no, we didn't know because that makes that makes a difference. No, it does make a big difference exactly.
Speaker 2:Yes, that goes towards the I mean, you'll obviously know a lot about that as well but that will then go towards the capex contribution towards doing the fifth down. So yeah, big, potentially you know scary deposit, but actually there's a good couple of months, depends I'm trying what the average is now, but you know, maybe five months rent free on a three-year term leasing. Guys might tell me I'm wrong on that, but you know that's definitely something to bear in mind that you do get that contribution through your rent freeze as well.
Speaker 2:Less so on the on the serviced and managed side, obviously. But we negotiate where we can okay, cool, let's do the next one we don't necessarily want to take on a long lease, but we want to have some control over how our office looks. Is there a solution whereby we can have a managed office?
Speaker 1:but have some say over the design absolutely.
Speaker 2:This is just managed through and through as soon as we get any requirement like this, like right, managed is perfect. So this is where we will go out, we will cover every building and we will find the right building that works, the location, the size, the amenities, end of trip facilities, anything you know. We'll find the building first and then we can bring in a managed provider and then we can work on the full consultancy of the design. As I said, how you're going to use the space, and that can be completely yours. I mean, there's one, I think. So you remember there was one company we worked with a while ago where I think they worked with the textiles firm and they created their logo out of all these like old bits of textiles. So it's a bit different, it's a bit quirky, but you know you can have full say over. You know what you want to create. So that is, you know, the perfect, managed brief perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. I love that great solution. Yeah, because I feel like that's important if you're an established brand. We've. I've done episodes before on the importance of like a branded space it's not about like throwing a logo on the wall. It's like actually creating like a vibe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% within your brand. You can feel it as well when you walk into an office, can't you? You know, if someone's just you know stuck something off on the wall to be like look how cool and creative we are yeah compared to. This is our home and this is where people will come and be with their friends at work, and they'll work hard and will love being here yeah, there's definitely something nice about like having a home, like we have a home.
Speaker 1:We're in a managed office, but we have. It feels like it's ours, even though we don't have to deal with all the stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, perfect, it's perfect. It's just the perfect meet in the middle yeah, isn't it?
Speaker 1:why do they do?
Speaker 2:this for housing? This is exactly what I was going to say. Why don't they? And also, there is residential options.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think, slowly but surely it's really expensive and also, again, for us.
Speaker 2:We are very much. You know we we manage the relationship between our clients, between you know, landlords and providers. We will take all of the options that there are, combine them into like one really easy link, report, option list and send it to the client and we'll work on that I've been in the process of buying a house recently and, my god, I wish, I wish there was just one person I could contact yeah, I could just do it all spland.
Speaker 2:The amount of phone calls and voicemails I've been getting. I've just had to block everyone. It's too stressful, yeah, but if there was just one person I could have gone through. That would have just been so much easier. But one day in time, one day, maybe we should start a residential.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's what we should do that's it, yeah so, yeah, yeah, we'll see later.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's do the last one hello, we're a small team of 10 but we're growing really quickly. Should we start in serviced, then get a lease later down the line? I mean, london is a really, really diverse market with so many options, so you know it's perfectly suited to high growth companies. But again, like we've touched on, service will definitely be the best solution. Again, even you know, with service there are smaller providers, such as, you know, canvas, where it still feels like your own proper four walls and there's a little bit of communal breakout, but you know it still very much feels like your own space. It doesn't have to be a very tiny little. You know glass box office in a huge space. Everything is available. So I would definitely suggest starting in serviced and then growing up from there. But I think what's going to be super important it's very hard to say. You know how many people are you going to be in a year or two? And every ask the question everyone's like I don't know. But having an idea of that, you know, for us as well, just to really know what kind of route we can then look at.
Speaker 2:I mean, I worked with a company a couple of years ago. They started as five people in a fairly cost-effective space in, you know, service space in shoreditch, I think. Eight months later they'd gone up to 20 and we moved them into forever home and then within three months we were out looking for 9 000 square foot. It was insane, absolutely insane. So again, they had a previous space that they'd signed up to, but then they didn't. You know, they needed way more space. So that was another thing where we can help with that and we can kind of help with letting the previous space and getting clients into, you know, bigger spaces.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that was and it's configuration as well, isn't it? It's like meeting rooms, 100 meeting rooms. No one ever knows how many meeting rooms they need no more is just the answer.
Speaker 2:More, yeah, just more.
Speaker 1:I just need more meeting rooms, yeah, yeah and I feel like that's gonna go up as well, because I think people only go to work now, apart from us, because we don't. We don't work from home, yeah, but other people go to work to have meetings, yeah, absolutely don't they yeah to like collaborate in some way just really important, I don't think we're that far away from offices being collaboration spaces with meeting rooms and like the odd place to work rather than the banks of desks.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree because banks of desks always seem to be empty we saw collaboration spaces are rammed.
Speaker 2:It's my yeah, it's a very good point. Uh, we actually saw a space the other day again, like six thousand square foot, had 10 desks in it. That was it, other than that, meeting rooms breakout and yeah, I think that is how more and more people are going to be using, using the space. Yeah, which makes a lot of sense well, thank you so much. You're more than welcome thanks, that was very insightful.
Speaker 1:It's good to have you here. Thank you so much, holly cool. Well, you can connect with tasha on linkedin her linkedin link. Linkedin link is in the show notes. Um, and obviously um the link to the contours website as well. Um. So, thank you very much. See you soon.